Kyranthia
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Post by Kyranthia on Sept 26, 2006 22:45:19 GMT -5
Okay, since I don't think we can move posts, I'm gonna quote the post that started this discussion:
sperry wrote:
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Kyranthia
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Post by Kyranthia on Sept 26, 2006 22:50:08 GMT -5
I don't see the dresses as too revealing, really. I kinda think they aren't all that more showy than Disney's Tinkerbell. The dresses are short and a bit low cut. But you can't really see anything, I don't think.
I do wonder though if the dresses are what prompted NBC to give the show a TV-PG rating. I mean...there's not even really any bad language. Even when things go really bad, the worse I think I've heard is 'That sucked.'
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ManekiNeko
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Post by ManekiNeko on Sept 27, 2006 0:05:32 GMT -5
Not a problem, Laurie. I said it before and I'll say it again.
I am definitely not one to say what is or is not too revealing (it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what I think of these dresses). Any sort of "Formal wear", aside from the long dresses of ages past, will have some sort of cleavage showing in them. I don't need to tell you about some of the stuff on MTV with what they consider "dancing".
I will say that almost every show nowadays, even so-called "Family Friendly" sitcoms, has or deals with some sort of mature subject matter in some way, shape or form, even shows on early at night.
The Simpsons -- let's see... alcoholism, swearing (admittedly, mild, but still), innuendos, male nudity.
Two and a Half Men -- innuendos, sexual content.
America's Got Talent -- I don't know what the heck Leonid The Magnificent was, but he definitely sent the TV ratings through the roof!
That just names three shows that have most episodes rated PG, just like DoND. Do I need to mention the tens of thousands of shows on that are rated G or PG, and have an insane quantity of flatulence? I'm sorry, but a model opening a case is a little bit better than hearing one of those sounds every 10 seconds.
I've seen the specials on NBC about how the dresses are specially made to not have anything pop out that would cause a wardrobe malfunction (you also know how I feel about that!). In reality, this show isn't really that bad family-wise, dresses and all. I don't think any kid is going to become a career criminal watching a model open a case.
I'm very glad that you are being a parent. The world needs many more parents and people that say it's inappropriate, but this might be the wrong show to criticize in retrospect. There's really nothing too naughty or bad about this game at all.
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sperry
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Post by sperry on Sept 27, 2006 9:11:07 GMT -5
I think you are right about all those other shows, my children don't watch those either, neither do their parents. There are arguments about 'adult content' shows but in reality what we are as parents our children will become. So if we, as adults, continue to be de-sensitized about immoral, degrading conduct so will our children. It's across the board, everywhere. People say kids these days are spoiled, lazy, sex crazed etc. Where did they learn that? We only have ourselves to blame, we are the example. "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing." I will do something even if it only influences my own children. If our children don't learn to be positive, moral, contributing members of society then we have no future.
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Mandoli
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Post by Mandoli on Sept 27, 2006 12:29:22 GMT -5
If you think the Miss America pageant and having ten finalists parading around the stage in bikinis isn't enough to get a PG-13 rating (I think it does but I'm not sure) -- but then watch Deal and see 26 women in the same dress opening cases and find out that gets a PG-13 rating -- that's just not right.
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Kyranthia
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Post by Kyranthia on Sept 27, 2006 18:59:35 GMT -5
I definitely think that parents should be watching out for the content on television, don't get me wrong. And I really don't think that a lot of TV-PG shows are completely family friendly. Many of the sitcoms today are very suggestive in their dialogue.
So is it merely how the ladies dress that bothers you, sperry? I mean, the ladies aren't pole dancing or being flirty. They stand and smile and don't make any sort of suggestive movements opening the cases that I can see.
I'm not saying restricting what kids watch is bad. It REALLY needs to be done. I guess I'm just curious how young is too young for this show in your mind.
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Post by Shelly on Sept 28, 2006 23:04:58 GMT -5
I'm going to be blunt: I think preventing kids from watching a show like DoND simply because the models' dresses show some leg and cleavage is a dumbarse reason. If anything, DoND can be a bit of an educational tool, with all the math involved in playing the game. And besides, I think there's a helluva lot more focus on the gameplay (where it should be) than there is on the 26 women holding the cases.
I can admire one wanting to actually be a parent; but I think this is simply ridiculous.
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sperry
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Post by sperry on Oct 3, 2006 9:30:08 GMT -5
OK, lets be honest. Do you think if the models were dressed in nice pants, a modest blouse as many people would watch? I seriously doubt it. Don't kid yourself people are watching JUST to see the women. Watching the show may have some good points, but what does it teach about how this country views women? Play toys, something to be shown off with as little clothing as possible? If men were opening the cases I promise it would not have the same appeal it has and probably wouldn't be successful. My greatest concern is that it de-sensitizes people and women become objects, something to use to gain appeal, viewers and the bottom line, money. No reasonable person can deny the relationship between TV shows, their sexual content to the rise of sex crimes against children. Maybe watching Dond is not so bad, but what does it lead to? If we don't start thinking about how things affect the future, our children, we won't have one!
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ManekiNeko
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Post by ManekiNeko on Oct 3, 2006 10:46:10 GMT -5
OK, lets be honest. Do you think if the models were dressed in nice pants, a modest blouse as many people would watch? I seriously doubt it. This is the only point I agree with. Some people watch for the sex appeal of the models, but there is WAY more to the game than the models. The game play is the major emphasis of this game. So the drama, the hosting and the game play which has proven itself in over 30 countries is not a factor? This show is a major hit all over the world because it's easy to follow along and very dramatic. Please spare me from this rhetoric. I've heard this crap for over 20 years from militant uptight individuals and now I'm ready to ralph. The models all have names, most contestants know them by name and the models even interact with the contestants. They are as critical a part of the game as Howie is!! To say that this show objectifies women is ludicrous. People have said that about everything from Playboy Magazine to Deal or No Deal and it's completely bogus. The only people that will EVER think that are people that are going to think it regardless of whether or not Deal or No Deal is on the air. You've never seen the British version, apparently. Men and women in regular clothes open the boxes that contain different dollar amounts. However, since American audiences are used to the models, getting rid of them would negatively impact the show because they are as loved as Howie himself. This is the second biggest Bullflop argument of this post. Deal or No Deal doesn't tread any new ground in that regard, nothing that hip-hop or anything that's considered "mainstream" doesn't. Millionaire had the money and appeal before DoND, and sexy guys and girls have been used to promote things for decades, some way sexier than this show could ever aspire to be. (The Diet Coke commercial, anyone? How about the beer commercials featuring the Swedish Bikini Team in the early '90s?). This is #1 for all time. There's absolutely no scientific study that shows any link, direct or indirect between criminal sex acts and sexy TV shows. No one's going to watch beautiful adults in somewhat modest dresses and go commit that kind of atrocity because of it. The show Baywatch, which is much sexier than Deal or No Deal, was watched by over 1 BILLION people during it's run, in over 130 countries worldwide! Think about this: This is roughly 16% of the WORLD's population. Even if there was an indirect link between the two, this kind of behavior would happen so often that it would be mathematically impossible to incarcerate everyone that committed this, because you would see billions of these crimes happening to tens of millions of victims every year! The rise is more directly attributed to two factors: First, giving the kids too much latitude in dressing up like mini-courtesans with their outfits, and second, a lack of responsible parenting, specifically, pressure put on kids to force them to grow up before they're ready. I appreciate your level of effort about being a parent, but this is sorely overreacting in regards to this show. Deal or No Deal is really not any worse than any other TV show on the air today... soap operas, talk shows, court shows, medical dramas, cop shows and the like... I have two nephews that are 11 years old and a nephew who is 10 and I'll tell you right now, the three of them love Deal or No Deal and they are not disrespectful towards women at all or even really care about the dresses. They want to see a good game played.
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Kyranthia
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Post by Kyranthia on Oct 3, 2006 20:56:54 GMT -5
OK, lets be honest. Do you think if the models were dressed in nice pants, a modest blouse as many people would watch? Who knows. The drama hooks people a lot too. I have to agree some are. Some have admitted this, yes. Some people watch for the models in general or because they like a particular lady. Okay, I'm female. I don't really see the alarm on what the ladies are wearing. The dresses aren't that skimpy. Short, yes. But honestly, the dresses are fashionable. They are not trampy looking things. There have been female models on game shows for ages. Barkers' Beauties, for example. Uh...DoND is not Law and Order:SVU or Desperate Housewives last I checked. Again, I don't see the DoND models worse than Disney's Tinkerbell or Ariel or Jasmine. Do you let your kids watch The Little Mermaid or Peter Pan? Or Aladdin? C'mon, ladies are drawn showing off some skin there too. Should we ban those movies?
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Mandoli
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Post by Mandoli on Oct 3, 2006 22:46:34 GMT -5
I'm not watching just to see the women, like you have stated. I am watching the show because it has been entertaining. The contestants on the show have become the most personable people there will ever be. And if the girls decide to wear nice blouses and a pair of slacks, then I will still watch, because like I said... the girls are not the reason my television is on the show.
Having the girls wear the dresses that they do wear doesn't teach this country anything. All it shows us is that these people are ordinary people -- no matter if they're called "models" on the show or not. Also, I think if men are opening the cases (like on the British version; where both men and women are opening boxes instead of cases), I don't think it would be a problem.
The viewers and appeal being gained I believe. The money, however, is a figment of anyone's imagination.
This certainly isn't Law and Order: Special Victims Unit. Right channel, but wrong cast of characters. Now that show -- right there -- shows what happens in the event of sex crimes. Deal or No Deal, on the other hand, just has entertainment.
It leads to one of NBC's best shows on the primetime schedule. We don't really need to be looking at the minor things (the girls' chests, for example). This show is here because we needed a new twist in game show land. Who will walk away with $1,000,000 with subplots in the way? This is all that matters. Not the girls, not the "skimpy dresses", and certainly not how much cleveage is shown.
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Post by Shelly on Oct 3, 2006 23:48:16 GMT -5
I don't give a crap what the girls wear. I would continue to watch. I would still watch if it were like the British version and it were everyday people opening the cases, or if it were 26 men doing so (and lord knows this conversation would NOT be taking place if the models were male). The GAME PLAY is what drew me in (not to mention the math element, since math was one of my stronger subjects in school...it's also why I like poker). Also, have you read some of the bios for some of the models? One of them was studying law at one point, IIRC. Another is a MENSA member (and you have to have a very high IQ to get into MENSA). Those models have some brains to go with their beauty; and, for that, I give them mad props. And yes, they, too, interact with the contestants. PROVE IT. Give me some statistics to back this up, because--personally--I am NOT buying it. I'm with Neko here. I also love Laurie's references to female characters in Disney animated movies. Slightly OT, but somewhat relevant (given one of Neko's comments): There's a commercial on sometimes for bluefly.com that would definitely be considered OTT by some people. Basically, this couple is getting ready to go to a concert or whatnot, but then they end up making out instead. (IMO, the make-out scenes are on par with similar scenes from TV and movies.) Then the voiceover girl says: "Bluefly.com ~ Fashion that turns every head in the place... even if you never make it to the place." The commercial ends with all the clothes strewn about on the floor of their bedroom. There's a longer, uncut version of it on YouTube if you want to watch it for yourself. ( The shorter, 30-second version is also up there.)
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sperry
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Post by sperry on Oct 10, 2006 9:23:04 GMT -5
It is very plain that what I have said has hit a nerve, brought about anger, rationalization, and yes even guilt, because anger is always a second emotion something else has bothered you first. Are you guilty? Are you rationalizing to defend you position? I honestly think most of you are not old enough to see the effects, on society, of what I have talked about, given time you will see the steady decline in values, morals, and respect for the human body. You have a right to your opinion, just as I have, but the statistics do not lie, they are out there if you have the guts to be honest and see them. As for the other TV shows you say are worse why would I go there, I don't need to see worse things, I care about what I put into my brain because that has a direct affect on what comes out and the values I have and live by, and the overall person I am. If I watch violence I become violent, it's a fact of life, we are what we eat and we are what we see. You can't plant and tomato and expect a pepper to grow!! This will be my last post. I will no longer discuss this topic, I have voiced my opinion and hopefully someone has taken to heart what has been said. Those who are honest will be able to see what I see and hopefully take a stand for what is right and decent. Good luck to all those who think otherwise, the truth will eventually present itself and you'll be able to see the negative effects these programs have on you, your families, our society and our world. I'll be praying for you.
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Mandoli
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Post by Mandoli on Oct 10, 2006 13:59:26 GMT -5
If I'm old enough to drive a car and smoke, then I'm old enough to know what's right and wrong in society. And seeing 26 women in the same dress is not an effect on society. The only thing that's important is the entertainment value, not how much of a woman's breast and/or thigh you see on camera. This show has proven that you feel for a contestant when they've eliminated the penny or the landmine. It's that simple.
I'm truthfully honest when I explain that just seeing the girls with this much clothing on is not going to give you nightmares or make you turn off your television. The only way NBC'll get any lip from me is if the show is not on.
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Kyranthia
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Post by Kyranthia on Oct 10, 2006 19:04:08 GMT -5
While there are a few more shows today that push boundaries that were taboo in the 80's (the decade that most of my childhood was in) I wouldn't put DoND with those shows. Nope, if I had kids, they could watch DoND. If the models were very suggestive, I'd have some hesistation. But they're not at all. I don't see the dresses are skimpy either...
But hey, to each his own.
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